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● (No.247) 高速(38400 baud)通信用TNC について (2001年 1月2日)
-------------------------------------------------------------
2000年の大晦日前日から新世紀2001年の元旦にかけて、衛星UO-36や TiungSat-1
で実験されている高速(38k4 baud)通信のためのTNCメーカーとして知られている
ドイツの SYMEK社 の担当者 DK9SJ, Ulf Kumm氏に、その TNC31S と それに対応
した無線機 TRX4S について、問い合わせをしました。 参考になる所が多いので
ここにその内容を公開します。
メールのやり取りの途中で、私のメールアドレスでは「送信拒否されてしまって
なぜだか送れないよ〜」とか言われてトラブルもありましたが、それでも何とか
メールの送受信ができて、日本の新年に合わせて私が謹賀新年のメールを送った
その30分後に、「まだドイツでは今年は 7時間残ってるよ〜」とか、おもしろい
やり取りがありました。
その他に、「こっちは(新年まで 7時間あって)、ディナーの準備をしてるよ。」
「君のメールが 2001年最初のメールだ！ Mineo(私のこと)、すばらしい大晦日
の夜(新年)を過ごしてね！」、「元日の朝は遅い朝食で、今、昼の12時だ。」と
いうようなメールも届き、大変親しみを感じました。
なお、E-mail で機器発注をする際に、VISA カードの番号を記載する必要があり
ますが、下記メールにもあるように、安全性確保のためにその16桁の番号を 8桁
づつに二つに分離し、送信相手にもわかるように、時間差を置いて 2通のメール
に分けて、各局の責任において送信して下さい。
なお参考までに、今回 多くの情報を得た SYMEK社 のホームページアドレスと、
もう一つのメーカーの PacComm社 のアドレスを記しておきます
SYMEK Datensysteme und Elektronik GmbH 社
http://www.symek.com/
PacComm Packet Radio Systems, Inc.社
http://www.paccomm.com/
----
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:20:00 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
To: ulf@symek.com
Subject: TNC31S
Hello, this is JE9PEL / Mineo Wakita.
I would like to decord UO-36 and TiungSat 38k4 signals.
Is this able to use your SYMEK TNC31S and TRX4S ?
Please tell me how much US$ and how to order.
Thank you.
----
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:56:15 +0100
From: Ulf.Kumm@t-online.de (Ulf Kumm)
Reply-To: "Ulf Kumm" [ulf@symek.com]
To: ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp, je9pel@jamsat.or.jp
Subject: TRX4 info
dr OM Mineo,
funny but the e-mail didn't work.
I tried several times with the same negative result.
Maybe it is just an temporary problem.
I send this e-mail to both addresses,
let's see which of them will work.
The mail to the jamsat.or.jp returned with the message:
>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of
>its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es)
>failed: je9pel@jamsat.or.jp:
>SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:
>[Ulf.Kumm@t-online.de]SIZE=1898:
>host ns1.jamsat.or.jp [211.4.236.66]:
>550 5.7.1 [Ulf.Kumm@t-online.de]... Access denied
Anyhow. Here the info for you!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Betreff: How to order
> Hello, this is JE9PEL / Mineo Wakita.
Hello dr OM Mineo! I am Ulf Kumm, DK9SJ
> I would like to decord UO-36 and TiungSat 38k4 signals.
> Is this able to use your SYMEK TNC31S and TRX4S ?
Yes.
I am not absolutely sure about the modes of these sats
but the TRX4S is able to transmit and receive from
430 to 440 MHz (other frequencies upon request).
Frequencies can be set in 12.5 kHz steps via RS232,
the bandwidth is 9600 / 19200 baud FSK in narrow mode and
38 / 76 / 153 kbaud in wide mode.
The uplink is (as far as I know) on 145 MHz, so you will
have to use a separate 2m transmitter (9600 baud) for this.
The TNC31S with the mixed-speed modem can transmit only
9600 baud and receive only 38400 baud FSK.
An alternative would be the TNC3S with one modem for
TX+RX 9600 and a second one for TX+RX 38400. This gives
you more flexibility to work the 9600 baud downlinks as
well.
With TNC31 and TNC3, you can change the modems later to
operate with 76 kbaud as well.
When I tried to receive UO36, I had no problems with a
TRX4S of the shelf on a 70cm groundplane without preamp.
For best results, a tracking yagi and low noise preamp
will be very usefull of cause.
> Please tell me how much US$ and how to order.
F-T4S TRX4S data transceiver 86 881 Yen = 759 US$
U-S9U TNC31S TX9600bd RS38400bd 23 000 Yen = 201 US$
or
T-T3U TNC3S Port1: TX+RX 9600
Port2: TX+RX 38400 40 300 Yen = 352 US$
UPS express 3.5 kg (4 days typ) 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
or
Post packet air mail (1-2 weeks) 5 800 Yen = 50 US$
(Prices may vary due to exchange rates, we charge in DEM)
You may order via e-mail. We accept VISA and Mastercard.
Please send us card number and expiry date. Split it
into two separate e-mails for security.
All parts are on stock.
If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
73! Ulf, DK9SJ
----
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:35:39 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
To: Ulf.Kumm@t-online.de
Cc: ulf@symek.com, ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp, je9pel@jamsat.or.jp
Subject: Re: TRX4 info
Hello Ulf Kumm DK9SJ, A Happy New Year to you !
I received certainly your mail today.
Thank you VERY VERY MUCH !
I don't know why 'je9pel@jamsat.or.jp' don't work,
but OK with 'ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp'.
Anyhow, I received fortunately your mail here.
Question 1 : For UO-36 and TiungSat-1,
Uplink 9600 baud with 2m ?
Downlink 38400 baud with 70cm ?
then only TNC31S OK ?
and Uplink TS-790 and Downlink TRX4S, OK ?
(KENWOOD) (SYMEK)
Question 2 : POSTAL MONEY ORDER or
CASH in a sealed letter OK ?
in addition to VISA and Mastercard.
----
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 17:21:18 +0100
From: "Ulf Kumm" [ulf@symek.de]
To: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp], [ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp]
Subject: Re: TRX4 info
- - - Ursprungliche Nachricht - - -
Von: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
An: [Ulf.Kumm@t-online.de]
Cc: [ulf@symek.com]; [ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp]; [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Dezember 2000 16:35
Betreff: Re: TRX4 info
> Hello Ulf Kumm DK9SJ, A Happy New Year to you !
Not yet here. Still 7 hours left in Germany.
I'll go to my family and help preparing the
'Sylvester'-dinner for us and our friends.
Yours was the 1st e-mail which had been sent in 2001!
Have a good night now dr Mineo.
> Question 1 : For UO-36 and TiungSat-1,
> Uplink 9600 baud with 2m ?
> Downlink 38400 baud with 70cm ?
> then only TNC31S OK ?
> and Uplink TS-790 and Downlink TRX4S, OK ?
> (KENWOOD) (SYMEK)
Yes this works.
You will have to make a special cable with a 5 pin
connector (TNC31), one connector to TRX4S as receiver
and one for the TS790 as transmitter.
Well, if you just need to expand the TS790 for high
speed reception, you may just modify this transceiver
with our F-IFD module (~110 US$). See the internet for
'IFD receiver for TS790'. However, we would like it
more if you order the TRX4S instead of cause.
Or perhaps you take the cheaper IFD as RX and a TNC3S
instead of TNC31 to receive both speeds?
> Question 2 : POSTAL MONEY ORDER or
> CASH in a sealed letter OK ?
> in addition to VISA and Mastercard.
I would not sent cash, but money order to my banc or
post would be OK. However, VISA/Master would be
best I think. Any way is OK - as you like. We can
even send post packets cash on delivery.
> je9pel@jamsat.or.jp
I'll send it to both addresses. Pse check which of
them will work and which will not.
73! Ulf, DK9SJ
----
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 08:09:59 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
To: ulf@symek.de
Cc: ulf@symek.com, ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp, je9pel@jamsat.or.jp
Subject: Order
A Happy New Year to you AGAIN !
1st Jan 2001, 00:00 in Germany, 08:00 in Japan.
I had modyfied already TS790 for 9600 baud, and I had worked
it everyday using TNC241(TASCO) for Uo22, Ko23, Ko25, To31 etc.
I am thinking of decording Uo36 signals such as 38k4 baud.
This diagram is as follows. I am thinking a transmitter is
TS790, and a receiver is TRX4S. Is this thought correct ?
Does TNC31S include G3RUH type modem ?
Antenna
--/-- --/--
--/-- --/--
437 --/-- --/-- 145 MHz
--/-- --/--
| | +============+
38k4 | | 9600 baud || || +---+
| | || || |---|
| | || || |---|
+-------+ +----------------+ || || |---|
| | | [ ] [ ] | +============+ |HDD|
| o o | | O o o | || ---| |
+-------+ +----------------+ - - - - - | +---+
TRX4S | TS790 | IBM |
| | |
| | |
| | +-----+ |
----------------------------| |---------------
+-----+ RS232C
TNC31S
I would like to order TRX4S and TNC31S. I will tell you my VISA
card number in a few days.
F-T4S TRX4S data transceiver 86 881 Yen = 759 US$
U-S9U TNC31S TX9600bd RS38400bd 23 000 Yen = 201 US$
UPS express 3.5 kg (4 days typ) 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The total sum 122 547 Yen = 1070 US$
Is this OK ?
----
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 09:37:23 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
To: ulf@symek.de
Cc: ulf@symek.com, ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp, je9pel@jamsat.or.jp
Subject: Connector
You wrote:
> You will have to make a special cable with a 5 pin
> connector (TNC31), one connector to TRX4S as receiver
> and one for the TS790 as transmitter.
Which part in diagram, (1) (2) (3) (4) , are two connectors ?
Are there these 5 pin connectors in this your packet ?
Antenna
--/-- --/--
--/-- --/--
437 --/-- --/-- 145 MHz
--/-- --/--
| | +============+
38k4 | | 9600 baud || || +---+
| | || || |---|
| | || || |---|
+-------+ +----------------+ || || |---|
| | | [ ] [ ] | +============+ |HDD|
| o o | | O o o | || ---| |
+-------+ +----------------+ - - - - - | +---+
TRX4S |(1) TS790 |(3) IBM |
| | |
| | |
| | (4)+-----+ |
----------------------------| |---------------
(2)+-----+ RS232C
TNC31S
I'm now checking which of my two address will work and
which will not.
----
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 12:01:31 +0100
From: "Ulf Kumm" [ulf@symek.de]
To: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Subject: Re: Connector
- - - Ursprungliche Nachricht - - -
Von: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
An: [ulf@symek.de]
Cc: [ulf@symek.com]; [ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp]; [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Gesendet: Montag, 1. Januar 2001 01:37
Betreff: Connector
> You wrote:
> > You will have to make a special cable with a 5 pin
> > connector (TNC31), one connector to TRX4S as receiver
> > and one for the TS790 as transmitter.
>
> Which part in diagram, (1) (2) (3) (4) , are two connectors ?
> Are there these 5 pin connectors in this your packet ?
>
>
> Antenna
> --/-- --/--
> --/-- --/--
> 437 --/-- --/-- 145 MHz
> --/-- --/--
> | | +============+
> 38k4 | | 9600 baud || || +---+
> | | || || |---|
> | | || || |---|
> +-------+ +----------------+ || || |---|
> | | | [ ] [ ] | +============+ |HDD|
> | o o | | O o o | || ---| |
> +-------+ +----------------+ - - - - - | +---+
> TRX4S |(1) TS790 |(3) IBM |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | (4)+-----+ |
> ----------------------------| |---------------
> (2)+-----+ RS232C
> TNC31S
The modem has a 5 pin round DIN connector (2+4) for 'one' radio.
Pin1=modulator TS790; Pin2=Ground; Pin3=PTT TS790; Pin 4=Demod TRX4S.
Normally, the connector is not included, so pse add to your final
order 'pse send a 5 pin DIN connector free'.
The cable between 1, 2, 3 and 4 will be Y-shaped (with 3 connectors).
----
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 11:57:11 +0100
From: "Ulf Kumm" [ulf@symek.de]
To: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Subject: Re: Order
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 11:57:11 +0100
- - - Ursprungliche Nachricht - - -
Von: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
An: [ulf@symek.de]
Cc: [ulf@symek.com]; [ei7m-wkt@asahi-net.or.jp]; [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Gesendet: Montag, 1. Januar 2001 00:09
Betreff: Order
> A Happy New Year to you AGAIN !
Thank you. It's 12:00 now and I come from a late breakfast...
> I had modyfied already TS790 for 9600 baud, and I had worked
> everyday using TNC241(TASCO) for Uo22, Ko23, Ko25, To31 etc.
>
> I am thinking of decording Uo36 signals such as 38k4 baud.
> This diagram is as follows. I am thinking a transmitter is
> TS790, and a receiver is TRX4S. Is this thought correct ?
Yes. This will work.
(As mentioned, it is also possible to add a 38k receiver to TS790)
> Does TNC31S include G3RUH type modem ?
Yes. There exists a special mixed baud modem for TX 9600 and
RX 38400. Runs normally in KISS mode when used for satellites.
> Antenna
> --/-- --/--
> --/-- --/--
> 437 --/-- --/-- 145 MHz
> --/-- --/--
> | | +============+
> 38k4 | | 9600 baud || || +---+
> | | || || |---|
> | | || || |---|
> +-------+ +----------------+ || || |---|
> | | | [ ] [ ] | +============+ |HDD|
> | o o | | O o o | || ---| |
> +-------+ +----------------+ - - - - - | +---+
> TRX4S | TS790 | IBM |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | +-----+ |
> ----------------------------| |---------------
> +-----+ RS232C
> TNC31S
That's clear!
(To program the TRX4S the first time, you need a RS232.)
> I would like to order TRX4S and TNC31S. I will tell you my VISA
> card number in a few days.
>
> F-T4S TRX4S data transceiver 86 881 Yen = 759 US$
> U-S9U TNC31S TX9600bd RS38400bd 23 000 Yen = 201 US$
> UPS express 3.5 kg (4 days typ) 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> The total sum 122 547 Yen = 1070 US$
>
> Is this OK ?
Yes, this is OK. The total sum may differ due to changing
exchange rates for few %.
Pse add your postal address when ordering!
vy 73! dr OM Mineo! Ulf, DK9SJ
----
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:24:20 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
To: ulf@symek.de
Cc: je9pel@jamsat.or.jp
Subject: IFD ?
You wrote:
> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 12:06:09 +0100
> From: "Ulf Kumm" [ulf@symek.de]
> To: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
> Subject: Re: Order & Connector
>
> Hi again,
>
> info@symek.de and info@symek.com are both valid,
> You have sent msg to both, so I got all twice.
> Doesn't matter - just for your info.
> 73! Ulf, DK9SJ
I understood it.
Well, you could send me a mail with je9pel@jamsat.or.jp !?
And you wrote:
> Well, if you just need to expand the TS790 for high
> speed reception, you may just modify this transceiver
> with our F-IFD module (~110 US$). See the internet for
> 'IFD receiver for TS790'. However, we would like it
> more if you order the TRX4S instead of cause.
> Or perhaps you take the cheaper IFD as RX and a TNC3S
> instead of TNC31 to receive both speeds?
>
> As mentioned, it is also possible to add a 38k receiver
> to TS790.
If I modify IFD modelu for TS790, can I use Uo36 with only
TS790 and TNC31S (up:9600 baud 2m, down:38k4 baud 70cm)
without TRX4S ? And can I modify it easy ?
In this case,
F-IFD TS790 module 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
U-S9U TNC31S TX9600bd RS38400bd 23 000 Yen = 201 US$
UPS express 3.5 kg (4 days typ) 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The total sum 48 332 Yen = 421 US$
(changing exchange rates for few %)
After modifying it, can I use as now TS790 for 9600 baud
satellites such as Uo22, Ko23 using TNC241(for 9600 baud)
in addition to 38k4 baud Uo36 using TNC31S(for 38k4 baud) ?
I'm going to switch TNC241(TASCO Japan) or TNC31S(SYMEK).
Antenna
--/-- --/--
--/-- --/--
437 --/-- --/-- 145 MHz
--/-- --/--
| | +============+
38k4 | | 9600 baud || || +---+
| | || || |---|
| | || || |---|
+----------------+ || || |---|
| [ ] [ ] | +============+ |HDD|
| O o o | || ---| |
+----------------+ - - - - - | +---+
TS790 | IBM |
| |
| +--------+ |
#------| TNC31S |-----#-------------
| +--------+ | RS232C
| |
| +--------+ |
|------| TNC241 |-----|
+--------+
In this case,
TNC31S has a 5 pin round DIN connector for 'one' radio.
Pin1=modulator TS790; Pin2=Ground; Pin3=PTT TS790; Pin 4=Demod TRX4S.
^^^^^
TS790 ?
I will send you a final certain order in a few days.
----
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:13:35 +0100
From: "Ulf Kumm" [ulf@symek.de]
To: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Subject: Re: IFD ?
- - - Ursprungliche Nachricht - - -
Von: "Mineo Wakita" [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
An: [ulf@symek.de]
Cc: [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
Gesendet: Montag, 1. Januar 2001 14:24
Betreff: IFD ?
> And you wrote:
> > Well, if you just need to expand the TS790 for high
> > speed reception, you may just modify this transceiver
> > with our F-IFD module (~110 US$). See the internet for
> > 'IFD receiver for TS790'. However, we would like it
> > more if you order the TRX4S instead of cause.
> > Or perhaps you take the cheaper IFD as RX and a TNC3S
> > instead of TNC31 to receive both speeds?
> >
> > As mentioned, it is also possible to add a 38k receiver
> > to TS790.
>
> If I modify IFD modelu for TS790, can I use Uo36 with only
> TS790 and TNC31S (up:9600 baud 2m, down:38k4 baud 70cm)
> without TRX4S ? And can I modify it easy ?
YES exactly.
The IFD adds a high speed RX data output to TS790.
You find the modification instructions if you start at
http://symek.de and go to 'satellite radio' and 'IFD'.
It is not complicated to add the module in an existing
transceiver.
> In this case,
>
> F-IFD TS790 module 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
> U-S9U TNC31S TX9600bd RS38400bd 23 000 Yen = 201 US$
> UPS express 3.5 kg (4 days typ) 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> The total sum 48 332 Yen = 421 US$
> (changing exchange rates for few %)
Yes. That's it.
If you use a TNC3S with two modems instead of the TNC31,
you are able to receive both speeds (9600 AND 38k) without
changeing anything (WISP accepts data from both modems and
the modified TS790 receives both speeds)
> After modifying it, can I use as now TS790 for 9600 baud
> satellites such as Uo22, Ko23 using TNC241(for 9600 baud)
> in addition to 38k4 baud Uo36 using TNC31S(for 38k4 baud) ?
> I'm going to switch TNC241(TASCO Japan) or TNC31S(SYMEK).
Yes, if you use the TNC31, you will have to swicht RS232 when
changeing from 38k to 9k6 downlink. With TNC3 as controller,
the TNC241 would become obsolete.
> Antenna
> --/-- --/--
> --/-- --/--
> 437 --/-- --/-- 145 MHz
> --/-- --/--
> | | +============+
> 38k4 | | 9600 baud || || +---+
> | | || || |---|
> | | || || |---|
> +----------------+ || || |---|
> | [ ] [ ] | +============+ |HDD|
> | O o o | || ---| |
> +----------------+ - - - - - | +---+
> TS790 | IBM |
> | |
> | +--------+ |
> #------| TNC31S |-----#-------------
> | +--------+ | RS232C
> | |
> | +--------+ |
> |------| TNC241 |-----|
> +--------+
Nearly OK. You cannot connect the modulation input of TS790 to both
TNC at the same time. You will have to switch TX here.
But the modified TS790 will have two independent outputs for 9600
and 38400 which go to TNC241 and TNC31.
> In this case,
> TNC31S has a 5 pin round DIN connector for 'one' radio.
> Pin1=modulator TS790; Pin2=Ground; Pin3=PTT TS790; Pin 4=Demod TRX4S.
> ^^^^^
> TS790 ?
Exactly
> I will send you a final certain order in a few days.
OK. I'll wait for it!
73! Ulf
----
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:30:00 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita [je9pel@jamsat.or.jp]
To: ulf@symek.de
TNC241(TASCO Japan) have all mode such as FSK, PSK, JAS, RTTY,
AMTOR, CW, FAX between 300 baud and 19200 baud.
Here JAS mode means that uplink is FM Manchester Code mode and
downlink is PSK mode. It is setting automatically at JAS mode.
This JAS mode is use for satellite Fo29. Therefore I will use
this TNC241 switching with TNC31S.
I order to you as follows:
F-IFD TS790 module 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
U-S9U TNC31S TX9600bd RS38400bd 23 000 Yen = 201 US$
UPS express 3.5 kg (4 days typ) 12 666 Yen = 110 US$
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The total sum 48 332 Yen = 421 US$
(changing exchange rates for few %)
(Today, DEM 810.34 = 44.657,66 Yen = 390 US$)
And please send a 5 pin DIN connector free.
Thank you for your many detailed mails for TNC31S etc.
May I put these your much useful advice on my Home Page ?
I'm sure that many Japanese hams will be of great use.
I will send you later a card number splitting upper eight
figures and lower eight figures in sixteen figures.
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